Andra Watkins, Across the Pond's inaugural guest, breaks down the factions bankrolling Christian nationalism, the global infrastructure behind Project 2025, and what we can do to fight back.
In light of the discussion about amending or revising the Constitution, I find myself wondering what good it would do to amend it when justices willfully ignore the plain text of the document, which happened with the Birthright Citizenship case. And yet, I feel concern about revising/rewriting the Constitution so that all of us are represented because extreme right wing activists, such as the surviving Koch brother, have funded groups practicing what they will do if a rewriting were to take place, sort of like a model UN for making the Constitution even more right-wing.
I dislike painting myself into a corner, so I would welcome discussion. I believe Elie Mystal has said that the first thing to do is to reform the court -- but please forgive me if I am misattributing that notion to him. What do people think?
Tracy, I first said I believed we need a new Constitution last summer at a Big Tent USA event. I could say a lot about how other democracies have updated their constitutions more than the US has, but my observations are based in this: Our founding documents were written by rich white men, some of whom owned people; all of whom thought women weren't people. I'm not saying it wasn't a visionary experiment; I'm saying we should not treat it like the Bible. It isn't holy and sacred and perfect. It should be a living, breathing document that represents the will of We the People. And that means ALL people. Not just rich white men who thought women weren't people and were fine with forming a county with a subset who thought owning people wasn't repugnant.
I have been writing a series on my Substack about what a We The People Constitution would look like. I'm doing another update tomorrow in honor of the 250th anniversary. Much of what's there has been submitted by others at this point. It is a living conversation about what democracy should look like for We the People.
I think it's really difficult to ask Black women or Indigenous people (as two examples) to fight for "democracy" when Peoples of Color have NEVER lived in a democracy. One reason democracy is retreating globally is because we keep calling Jim Crow laws and segregation and the oppression of women and robbing Indigenous peoples and concentration camps (plantations; indentured servitude; forced rounding up of Japanese Americans; the incarceration industrial complex - this is our ENTIRE history as a country) - we keep calling all that democracy WHEN IT IS NOT. I'm not fighting for a Constitution that has treated human beings like that the entire time it has existed. I want those people to have a seat at the table along with the rest of us to decide what real democracy - what ALL PEOPLE ARE EQUAL - looks like.
The fascists worked for five decades to define the country they want. Maybe even longer if we go back to the Confederacy, because this is really a continuation of the Confederacy. They haven't been shy about saying they want vile, abominable, atrocious, unequal government for rich white men. And I don't think we should be shy about what democracy means: ALL PEOPLE ARE EQUAL. ALL OF US.
I don't believe I will see this in my lifetime, but I can still fight for it. We can still create a framework that gives that to the future.
Thank you so much for this response. Yes, that is what I had thought you'd said, and if I misrepresented your position, I apologize sincerely.
I would disagree with one point -- not as a purity test!! -- but, if Blacks, women, and Indigenous people were not living in a democracy in the US, no one was. I believe you will agree with this, even while yes, it's so important to recognize that the concerted effort to eliminate non- property owning men, people of color, and women from the writing of the Constitution means that our work is to include all people into our core laws.
The question is process. Can we amend the Constitution, like Ahmed believes, to be more representative or must we rewrite it? Would an amendment that says something to the effect of these laws are true for everyone (sorry, not a lawyer...that much is certain!) suffice? I think the problem with this is not whatever language we devise for such an amendment but the horrible fact that these justices are unwilling to follow the Constitution even to the extent that it only represents the rights of white men. If it isn't what they want -- from Kavanaugh writing a nonsensical response that says the legislature's law is enough but not the 14th amendment...when they say the same thing, to ignoring the 9th amendment and saying that the Constitution does not address abortion so states can write whatever laws they want:
It's all motivated reasoning and has nothing to do with judicial reasoning.
With that in mind, nothing can work in the face of these unelected, packed, unscrupulous, and corrupt justices. Reform the court, I say.
If I can, may I ask you, What do you think about the effort to organize right-wing people to rewrite the Constitution? Have you addressed this in your must-read substack? (I will try to read it! Very busy, like so many).
I don't believe we've ever truly lived in a democracy. Our founders decided each Black person was only 3/5 of a person on Day 1. Indigenous people didn't count. Women didn't count. We had concentration camps (in the form of plantations) operating on Day 1. That is not democracy.
I'm not saying what the founders did wasn't radical and amazing for its time. But it is hard to ask People of Color, women, and other marginalized groups to fight for this version of democracy. I want real democracy for all people.
As I said to someone else in a comment reply on my Substack today, I believe we must abolish our Constitution and draft a new one, and I will continue to advocate and fight for that outcome. I'll be disappointed but not devastated if these discussions result in a major 21st century progressive update to our existing Constitution, though I believe that result will always empower racist, patriarchal assholes to use the "only white men are equal" bones of the original to oppress the rest of us.
Here's a link to today's installment. I update it every couple of months from reader suggestions. https://andrawatkins.substack.com/p/a-country-where-all-people-are-equal (I'm giving you the link because we do have a list for the judicial branch, as well as a great comment today about specific reforms to the Supreme Court.)
I'm with you Ahmed, regarding the Constitution. I see it as a damn near perfect document written by very inperfect men. There's always room for more amendments.
Great show. I can’t decide between this and your Friday Substack live as to my favorite. I learn things and get a great perspective I wouldn’t otherwise have. I’ve have created 11:30a “meetings” at work so I can listen uninterrupted.
I encourage everyone to listen to Hidden Brain Podcast: Creating God episode with an open mind and to the very end. We can absolutely live in a world of peace when we remove the influence of predatory billionaires from every aspect of our lives.
This movement is not new , just has a different name
Great conversation!
In light of the discussion about amending or revising the Constitution, I find myself wondering what good it would do to amend it when justices willfully ignore the plain text of the document, which happened with the Birthright Citizenship case. And yet, I feel concern about revising/rewriting the Constitution so that all of us are represented because extreme right wing activists, such as the surviving Koch brother, have funded groups practicing what they will do if a rewriting were to take place, sort of like a model UN for making the Constitution even more right-wing.
I dislike painting myself into a corner, so I would welcome discussion. I believe Elie Mystal has said that the first thing to do is to reform the court -- but please forgive me if I am misattributing that notion to him. What do people think?
Tracy, I first said I believed we need a new Constitution last summer at a Big Tent USA event. I could say a lot about how other democracies have updated their constitutions more than the US has, but my observations are based in this: Our founding documents were written by rich white men, some of whom owned people; all of whom thought women weren't people. I'm not saying it wasn't a visionary experiment; I'm saying we should not treat it like the Bible. It isn't holy and sacred and perfect. It should be a living, breathing document that represents the will of We the People. And that means ALL people. Not just rich white men who thought women weren't people and were fine with forming a county with a subset who thought owning people wasn't repugnant.
I have been writing a series on my Substack about what a We The People Constitution would look like. I'm doing another update tomorrow in honor of the 250th anniversary. Much of what's there has been submitted by others at this point. It is a living conversation about what democracy should look like for We the People.
I think it's really difficult to ask Black women or Indigenous people (as two examples) to fight for "democracy" when Peoples of Color have NEVER lived in a democracy. One reason democracy is retreating globally is because we keep calling Jim Crow laws and segregation and the oppression of women and robbing Indigenous peoples and concentration camps (plantations; indentured servitude; forced rounding up of Japanese Americans; the incarceration industrial complex - this is our ENTIRE history as a country) - we keep calling all that democracy WHEN IT IS NOT. I'm not fighting for a Constitution that has treated human beings like that the entire time it has existed. I want those people to have a seat at the table along with the rest of us to decide what real democracy - what ALL PEOPLE ARE EQUAL - looks like.
The fascists worked for five decades to define the country they want. Maybe even longer if we go back to the Confederacy, because this is really a continuation of the Confederacy. They haven't been shy about saying they want vile, abominable, atrocious, unequal government for rich white men. And I don't think we should be shy about what democracy means: ALL PEOPLE ARE EQUAL. ALL OF US.
I don't believe I will see this in my lifetime, but I can still fight for it. We can still create a framework that gives that to the future.
Dear Andra,
Thank you so much for this response. Yes, that is what I had thought you'd said, and if I misrepresented your position, I apologize sincerely.
I would disagree with one point -- not as a purity test!! -- but, if Blacks, women, and Indigenous people were not living in a democracy in the US, no one was. I believe you will agree with this, even while yes, it's so important to recognize that the concerted effort to eliminate non- property owning men, people of color, and women from the writing of the Constitution means that our work is to include all people into our core laws.
The question is process. Can we amend the Constitution, like Ahmed believes, to be more representative or must we rewrite it? Would an amendment that says something to the effect of these laws are true for everyone (sorry, not a lawyer...that much is certain!) suffice? I think the problem with this is not whatever language we devise for such an amendment but the horrible fact that these justices are unwilling to follow the Constitution even to the extent that it only represents the rights of white men. If it isn't what they want -- from Kavanaugh writing a nonsensical response that says the legislature's law is enough but not the 14th amendment...when they say the same thing, to ignoring the 9th amendment and saying that the Constitution does not address abortion so states can write whatever laws they want:
It's all motivated reasoning and has nothing to do with judicial reasoning.
With that in mind, nothing can work in the face of these unelected, packed, unscrupulous, and corrupt justices. Reform the court, I say.
If I can, may I ask you, What do you think about the effort to organize right-wing people to rewrite the Constitution? Have you addressed this in your must-read substack? (I will try to read it! Very busy, like so many).
Thank you,
Tracy
I don't believe we've ever truly lived in a democracy. Our founders decided each Black person was only 3/5 of a person on Day 1. Indigenous people didn't count. Women didn't count. We had concentration camps (in the form of plantations) operating on Day 1. That is not democracy.
I'm not saying what the founders did wasn't radical and amazing for its time. But it is hard to ask People of Color, women, and other marginalized groups to fight for this version of democracy. I want real democracy for all people.
As I said to someone else in a comment reply on my Substack today, I believe we must abolish our Constitution and draft a new one, and I will continue to advocate and fight for that outcome. I'll be disappointed but not devastated if these discussions result in a major 21st century progressive update to our existing Constitution, though I believe that result will always empower racist, patriarchal assholes to use the "only white men are equal" bones of the original to oppress the rest of us.
Here's a link to today's installment. I update it every couple of months from reader suggestions. https://andrawatkins.substack.com/p/a-country-where-all-people-are-equal (I'm giving you the link because we do have a list for the judicial branch, as well as a great comment today about specific reforms to the Supreme Court.)
Thank you!
Sacramento California
Christians mine ass! These people are evil morons
I'm with you Ahmed, regarding the Constitution. I see it as a damn near perfect document written by very inperfect men. There's always room for more amendments.
This is a great convo! Thanks, all!
Great show. I can’t decide between this and your Friday Substack live as to my favorite. I learn things and get a great perspective I wouldn’t otherwise have. I’ve have created 11:30a “meetings” at work so I can listen uninterrupted.
I encourage everyone to listen to Hidden Brain Podcast: Creating God episode with an open mind and to the very end. We can absolutely live in a world of peace when we remove the influence of predatory billionaires from every aspect of our lives.
Thank God they are pretty incompetent! AND our courts are holding strong except for SCOTUS 6!