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Remarkably, Pope Leo XIV has become the most prominent moral voice speaking out against Christian Nationalism and the Trump Administration in the world. That is not hyperbole.
Don Lemon joined me for our weekly Substack Live conversation to break down Marco Rubio’s face-saving Vatican visit, what it signals about how rattled the administration actually is, and why Pope Leo’s increasingly direct attacks on Christian nationalism are landing so hard.
We got into Hegseth’s press briefing blasphemy, the contrast between what this administration is selling as Christianity and what the Pope is actually preaching, and my argument that Jesus Christ himself would be deported under this administration’s immigration policies.
Don also brought on-the-ground reporting from his recent trip in London, which gave us a real-world read on how Trumpism is landing in Europe. From there we connected it to the UK election results and the transatlantic spread of the MAGA playbook, something I broke down in depth with Labour Party former spokesman James Matthewson on yesterday’s Across the Pond live episode. We closed on the hantavirus headlines and why a pandemic under RFK Jr. running health policy is a scenario too alarming to ignore.
This was a wide-ranging, morally grounded conversation and one of the more important episodes we have done. If you were watching live, thank you for being part of it. If you’re catching up now, the full conversation is above, and the key takeaways are below.
The Pope vs. The Trump Administration
Rubio flew to Rome this week for a Vatican visit that was billed as diplomacy but reads as damage control. The Pope has become a genuine threat to this administration’s attempts at religious moral branding, and the polling is showing it.
Rubio’s visit is face-saving, full stop. Pope Leo has become, as I put it, one of the biggest moral voices speaking out against this administration and its Christian nationalism. Last month, he said explicitly, “Woe to those who manipulate religion in the very name of God for their own military, economic, or political gain, dragging that which is sacred into darkness and filth.” That is a direct hit. Rubio flying to Rome is the administration acknowledging it landed.
Trump’s attacks on the Pope have been incoherent and revealing. Don noted that Trump has accused the Pope of wanting war and wanting Iran to have a nuclear weapon, both of which are demonstrably false. The Pope is preaching peace. The attacks do not hold up to any scrutiny, and they are backfiring with Catholic voters, with new polling showing waning support for Trump among Catholics, a constituency he cannot afford to lose.
Rubio is also running a 2028 play. As I pointed out, look at those images from Rome. That is a man creating presidential footage. Rubio’s mission was as much about his own political ambitions as Trump’s foreign policy.
JD Vance tried to threaten the Pope, and it went nowhere. Don raised Vance warning the Pope to be careful about speaking on matters of theology, which, as Don put it, is kind of the Pope’s main job. Leo did not blink. He did not backtrack. As I said, that clearly got under Trump’s skin, and it should.
Woe to Those Who Manipulate Religion
The Pope’s criticism of this administration is not vague or diplomatic. It is targeted. And the primary target, beyond Trump himself, is Pete Hegseth’s Christian nationalist press briefings.
Hegseth has been running what I called outright blasphemous Christian nationalist rhetoric from the Pentagon podium. He compared journalists questioning the administration to the Pharisees who challenged Jesus in the Bible, effectively accusing reporters of being traitors to Jesus Christ. He compared fallen soldiers to the resurrection of Christ. He has framed this war as a holy war. That is the behavior Pope Leo is responding to when he speaks out against manipulating religion for military and political gain.
Trump threatening Iran’s civilian infrastructure on Easter while saying “praise Allah” is the tell. I made the point that Trump was tweeting threats to decimate Iranian civilian infrastructure on Easter Sunday, including the phrase “praise Allah.” Don was direct: if Barack Obama had said “praise Allah” on Easter, it would have ended his presidency. The same people who spent years calling Obama a secret Muslim gave Trump a complete pass for this. The double standard is not incidental. It is the whole game.
The administration accusing the Pope of being soft on crime exposes the emptiness of the attacks. As I pointed out, since when is the Pope supposed to be a crime fighter? None of Trump’s criticisms of Leo make any sense. They are baseless attacks. And the Pope keeps standing his ground anyway, which is exactly what makes him dangerous to an administration that depends on controlling the Christian nationalist narrative.
If Jesus Were Alive Today
Pope Leo announced he will visit the Canary Islands in June, a major migrant entry point off Africa’s western coast. The visit is a direct rebuke of everything this administration has done on immigration. Don and I went deep on what real Christian teaching says about how to treat migrants.
The Pope is making the case that all Christians should be making. As I said, Jesus preached about welcoming your neighbor. Real Christianity, the kind James Tallarico and others who oppose Christian nationalism talk about, would have been welcoming asylum seekers, treating them as human beings, not demonizing, deporting, or in some cases killing them, which this administration has done. The Pope visiting migrant entry points is not a political statement. It is a theological one.
Don raised the Pope’s stand on World Press Freedom Day as further evidence of where Leo is planting his flag. The Pope stood up for journalists just days ago, in direct contrast to an administration that attacks the press every single day. As I noted, the fact that defending journalism is inherently a critique of this administration says everything about how far outside democratic norms this administration operates.
Jesus himself would be deported under this administration’s policies. That was my argument, and I will stand by it. Historically, whether or not you believe he was the Messiah, Jesus most likely existed and was at the very least a spiritual leader and political activist who opposed the Roman imperial regime. By this administration’s standards, he would have been flagged as a dangerous migrant and a member of the political opposition. The Pope visiting migrants in the Canary Islands is the most Christian thing a world leader can do right now. Trump attacking him for it is one of the most revealing things this administration has done.
Powerful figures across the Western world are aligning against this administration on the same issues. As I noted, beyond the Pope, King Charles’s speech also carried language that was inherently a pushback against Trumpism. The monarchy, the Church, and European heads of government: they are all standing on the side of democracy, immigrants, and journalists. Trump is standing on the other side of all of it.
Trumpism Is A Transatlantic Moral Rot
Don was in London recently and got a telling ground-level read on how the American moment is landing in Britain. The short answer: not well.
Not one person Don spoke to in London had anything positive to say about Trump beyond “he’s interesting.” They did not think he was intelligent. They did not think he was articulate. Don acknowledged that London is to the UK what New York is to the US, metropolitan and liberal, so it may not represent the whole country. But the sentiment was uniform: people don’t blame the American people, but they do hold them accountable for bringing him back.
As I told Don, it’s like watching a friend get back with an abusive partner for the second or third time. The abuser is the problem. But at some point, you have to reckon with the fact that you keep bringing him back. That is the conversation the world is having about America right now.
Trumpism is a transmissible transatlantic disease, and Farage is the UK variant. As I told Don, Nigel Farage is running the exact same playbook across the Atlantic, just with a different accent. I broke this down in depth with former Labour Party spokesman James Matthewson on yesterday’s Across the Pond, which you can read and watch here. The same working-class, deindustrialized coal mining towns that fell for the MAGA message in the US are falling for the same immigrants-are-to-blame rhetoric in the UK. They are literally running the same con on the same demographic.
The UK election results will be bad for Labour and a warning sign for pro-democracy coalitions everywhere. As I noted to Don, Keir Starmer is starting to be compared to a Biden-like figure, strong enough to win but too institutionalist to hold the ground. Reform is consolidating the right-wing vote while the left fractures. The parallel to what happened here in 2024 is hard to ignore.
RFK And The Pandemic We’re Not Ready For
We closed on something that did not get enough coverage this week: hantavirus headlines, a gutted vessel health program, and former Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene recommending ivermectin for it in real time.
Don made the point plainly: he cannot go through a pandemic with RFK Jr. in charge. The vessel health program that monitors cruise ships and other vessels for infectious disease outbreaks has been gutted. Don drew the direct comparison to Trump’s team throwing away Obama’s pandemic playbook in 2020. RFK Jr. has done the same thing, and the early warning infrastructure is no longer in place.
The hantavirus response from the MAGA ecosystem was exactly what you’d expect. Don showed Marjorie Taylor Greene recommending ivermectin, vitamin D, and zinc for hantavirus in real time. As I said, you can take someone out of MAGA, but you cannot take the conspiracy theorist out of the person. We are watching the same playbook reload in real time.
Operation Warp Speed would not happen under this team. As I put it, last time we at least got a vaccine. This time, they would tell us to inject sea salt or something else crazy. It’s reasonable to be worried right now based on everything we have seen RFK Jr. say and do since taking over health policy.
Bottom Line
Pope Leo XIV is not backing down. He is visiting migrant entry points, standing up for journalists, and calling out the manipulation of religion for military and political gain by name. Trump attacked him for it, Vance threatened him, and Rubio flew to Rome to do damage control. The Pope did not blink.
That moral clarity is rare right now. Don and I are trying to match it from our corner. Independent media that tells the truth without fear is how we hold the line.
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